Taxology - Episode 4: How to be scam smart – Part 1
Release date: January 15, 2025
Catalogue number: Rv4-197/1-4-1-2024E-MP3
ISBN: 978-0-660-74532-9
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Transcript of Taxology - Episode 4: How to be scam smart – Part 1
CC: You missed us, didn't you? Yeah, you did. Welcome to a brand new season of Taxology, the official podcast from your favorite, the Canada Revenue Agency. Thanks for listening last season and get ready for the hottest topics in taxes coming your way. We're here to help you get started, know more and make you less terrified of your taxes. And hopefully get some benefits along the way
I'm your host, CC, and on today's episode.
CC: Oh, sorry. Let me just take this call.
CC: Hello.
Scammer: This is the Canada Revenue Agency. We are pleased to tell you that you are owed $3,456 in tax refunds.
CC: I'm getting a refund. That's awesome.
Scammer: The claim to refund please press 1 and have your banking information and social insurance number ready to give to our agent.
CC: Wait, you need my banking information and my social insurance number? That's weird. I work at the CRA too, and this seems different to me. What section are you in?
CC: Yeah. Nice try scammer.
CC: On this two-part episode, we'll be talking about all things scams. We're going to chat with some experts about the top scams and what you can do about them. We'll share tips for taxpayers to protect themselves, ways the CRA will legitimately contact you, and some new ways the CRA is using to help you be more informed about scams.
So buckle up, get your snacks and get ready for a great episode, and we promise all information shared today is factual. We're not going to scam you.
CC: Scams don't only involve the CRA. Across the government, we're all working to protect taxpayers from scams. So for this episode, we invited our colleague from the Canadian Anti Fraud Centre to chat with us about fraud prevention and how you can protect yourself from being a victim. So without further ado, let's give a warm welcome to Nancy joining us remotely.
Hi, Nancy. How are you doing today?
Nancy: Good. Thank you. How are you?
CC: I am great. Tell me about your work at the Canadian Anti Fraud Centre. Like what do you do?
Nancy: Uh, so right now I'm the acting client communications outreach officer.
And basically, that entails fraud presentations, awareness, you know, doing presentations to law enforcement, to the public, to…you know, doing podcasts, as we're doing today. And just reaching out and spreading awareness about fraud.
CC: What's something that you can tell us about work?
Nancy: I can tell you that fraud has definitely gotten…it's increased. It's definitely taken off since, since COVID. Since 2020, people have turned more so to online for either you know shopping, having their groceries delivered, any purchases and communicating because we had lockdowns so.
It's it's really taken…Taken a turn and I would say that it increased by over 300% since 2020.
CC: Whoa. And that's just what people are reporting.
Nancy: To the CAFC, correct. You know, fraud is underreported. We only received 5 to 10% of the reports. So you know when you're looking at half a billion in losses. It's a drop in the bucket. 5 to 10% is a drop in the bucket.
CC: Wow. Because I definitely get a lot of texts. I don't report and that's…But you're right, definitely they've been coming out more and more over the last few years.
Nancy: Yes.
CC: What's your favorite thing about working at the CAFC?
Nancy: Ohh, I love it all. I love my work. I am very passionate about what I do. I love helping victims of fraud. I, I like whether…and it's not necessarily a success story in the sense that you're getting their money back because we all know that those stories are far and few in between.
It's more so, you know, having the conversations and a lot of times just, just helping them through it and educating them, and helping them not fall for any other scams.
CC: Yeah, that must be so hard to hear these stories first hand.
Nancy: It is, it really is.
CC: So I get texts all the time on my phone saying that they're from the CRA. I'm going to get arrested. How can I tell the difference between real communications from the CRA and a scam?
Nancy: First of all, the CRA you will never text you unless it's two factor authentication, correct?
CC: Yeah.
Nancy: So that's number one. They will never send you a refund through E-transfer. And, If in doubt, look up the CRA number yourself, and, and be certain that it is the CRA number the correct one, and there are ways you can find out.
I mean, it's so funny because I'm going to quote my dad here, who's 87 years old and even prior to me working at the CAFC, he would say.
“If they really want to get a hold of me. They'll send me a letter”
So, and it's so. True, right? If the CRA wants to reach me, they will send me a letter and they will ask me in that letter to contact them. So yeah.
I, I don't. I do not trust any text messages that asks you to click on the link and confirm personal information. That's another thing the CRA wouldn't ask. So yeah, there's, there's many ways that you can protect yourself, but the best way is to verify, verify, verify. Always verify the information yourself and local law enforcement is there to help you.
We have our website which is a fountain of information. All the scams are listed, listed on our website from A-Z. So if you if you want to look at phishing scams, the CRA scam is on there and we have…we've listed all the different ways to protect yourself.
And yeah, there there's, there's so many things in place. You just need to know where this information is and that's what we're here today doing.
CC: So I have, if I have these scams and I want to report them, how do I do that?
Nancy: So basically we have an online reporting system.
So you can certainly go to our website, and very easy to use. Our, our system is very user friendly.
So you would report your attempted scam or your scam. So whether you're a victim or not, it's very important to report it for the reason that you will have the link. You will have information that is vital so that if there's an investigation, the CAFC is the central repository for data when it comes to fraud, so we assist law enforcement on investigations.
So they will…they will ask us, you know, “do you have information on this?”
And if we do, we share it. So if you share the link, you could be assisting and you could be helping solve a crime, right? So very important to report.
So, online reporting system, we have a 1-800 number that you can call. It's much easier to report online because you know of course we don't have numerous fraud call takers so online is quick and easy, and it's the best way to do it. And of course, always report to your local law enforcement. So that they know what is happening in their jurisdiction.
CC: Cool. What happens to my report after I submit it?
Like what do you guys do?
Nancy: So what we do is, we have a disruption program in place where we we've developed numerous partnerships with government entities as well as the private sector. And if there's a fraudulent telephone number contacting people and scamming them, we report the telephone number to the appropriate provider and we ask them to shut the phone number down so that it no longer victimizes people.
CC: When it comes to scams. What are the biggest red flags?
Nancy: Someone wanting an immediate response. So basically they always create a sense of urgency.
“Answer me now. I want it now.”
So it's very important to question that whenever somebody is pressuring you. Just stop. You need to stop and think about what you're doing.
If somebody asks you for personal information over the telephone or, you know over e-mail, always question that as well.
Unless you're expecting a message from somebody and they, and they tell you ahead of time, say it's your financial institution or whoever,
“I'll be sending you, you know, an e-mail or a message asking to confirm”
These, you know, certain things then that's fine. Because you know who's contacting you. But when, when it's an unsolicited message asking you to confirm personal information, don't do it.
Always verify the source where it's coming from and don't respond. Don't click on links.
Nancy: Threatening an aggressive language sometimes. I mean, we have those extortion scams, the CRA, extortion scams, we're going to come to your door and arrest you and you know, we live in Canada. We live in Canada. This doesn't happen in Canada.
So, you know, take it, take a step back and breathe right?
No one's coming to your door to arrest you unless you've done something really, really bad.
So you know there's messaging apps that are more encrypted than others. And so the fraudsters tend to use those. So that raises a flag if they don't want to communicate with you over telephone call or in-person or via text message, you know just normal like give you their number and everything, their location…then that's a flag as well. So you know that they're hiding something. So that's another one to look out for.
CC: I've heard about gift cards people saying like you need to pay us back by gift cards. I don't know how the Government of Canada would accept gift cards from some retail store.
Nancy: Or crypto! Crypto's another one. It's a huge one. It’s the one that is hardest to, you know, there is a lot of tracing that has to happen for wallets. So the government will not ask you to pay your taxes via Bitcoin or put like putting cash in the Bitcoin machine or…
So there's crypto investment scams. I, I know we're, we're veering off of the phishing scam a bit here, but there's one of the number one top reported frauds to the Canadian Anti Fraud Centre, other than phishing scams report wise: Phishing is #1.
Nancy: But we do have investment scams that comes, you know, after that, and the losses are astronomical, like they're they were over $300 million last year.
CC: Oh my gosh.
Nancy: Yeah. So they represent a large portion of our losses. Now that's not all crypto. I mean, there's, there's investment scams that involve, you know, wire transfers, but crypto is a good portion of it.
And so they will ask you to invest in cryptocurrency and then they promise high returns.
And people are sending sometimes their entire life savings to someone they just met online and is promising them to make a large amount of money overnight. And, you know, if something sounds too good to be true, it's too good to be true.
This doesn't happen, we work so hard for our money.
Why part with it so easily and not question where we're sending our money, who we're talking to? You know, who's getting this money? I feel that. You know, we need to stop and we need to start questioning.
We work hard. And it to part with it so easily it's just. Yeah, it's, it's they…these fraudsters are very, very convincing and very good at what they do.
CC: Tell me how like how does a how does a phishing scam work?
Nancy: So phishing is either by e-mail or you can get a text message.
And basically, you'll receive a message that's either impersonating a financial institution, saying to…you've been locked out of your account and to confirm your information in order to gain access back to your account. That's one of them.
There's the CRA, of course, where they send, you know: “collect your benefits or your tax return.”
There's always, you know: “click on the link and deposit your money.”
The CRA does not communicate with people that way, and they don't do refunds via online transfers, so there's those types of phishing scams.
My gosh, there's so many. I, I get them all the time and, and honestly, I just I see a link now and I delete it. I, I don't even look at it. I don't even take the time and look at it because there's so many, but if you're getting a text message, whether from doesn't matter if, it's, if it's your telephone provider offering you a better deal.
“Click on the link!” Don't do it. Never click on unsolicited links.
Rule of thumb and honestly, I've probably deleted some legitimate messages. But it's better to be safe than sorry. It really is.
CC: What's something you want every Canadian to know about scams?
Nancy: You know, if there's anything to say about scams and I'm, I'm going to do scams in general, is that the people behind it...like it's organized crime at the end of the day, and these people really don't have any empathy or anything, obviously and all they want is your money.
And at the end of the day, they will do anything and I mean anything. To get their hands on your money.
One of the worst ones that really affects me, actually we have we have, there's different types of scams that are worse than others of course, I'm going to say romance scams are heart wrenching.
CC: What's a romance scam?
Nancy: Romance scams, basically. So people go on online looking for a relationship to find their, their forever person, right? So they will meet somebody online, and the fraudster will chat them up and will basically gain their trust and their affection very quickly you will see some “I love you's” very quickly. And a person who is lonely and who is craving it will fall, will fall hard.
And they will always say: “OK, we're going to meet. Here's my, my plane ticket.” Whatever. Most of the time, they're not in your area. They're, they're either somewhere in another country or, you know, one of the famous ones is somebody in the military! That is serving, they're doing their last tour. They're coming home to retire and they can't wait to be with somebody. And so yeah, that that's another one that we see.
But they create a sense of urgency to get money. They either lost their wallet at the airport, they, they create an, an emergency, they need money and so victims will start sending money and you know, next thing you know, they're in the hospital. They have. There's medical bills, they don't have access to their account. There's all kinds of different reasons to send money and these victims, sometimes lose hundreds of thousands of dollars just to lose contact with that person when there's no money left. The fraudster will stop communicating and they are left with an empty bank account and a broken heart. So it's. Yeah, it's very heart wrenching.
CC: Oh, that's terrible. I bet some of them take savings out of their like TFSAs or RRSPs too! So, I bet there are tax implications after being scammed as well.
Nancy: Yeah.
CC: Do you have any tips and tricks from the CAFC? For Canadians who want to avoid being scammed.
Nancy: Umm, so basically you can use uh, you know, password managers are great and unique passwords are, are great as well. Umm, definitely if you if you keep using unique passwords, changing your passwords often, that can definitely help in protecting yourself.
There's tons of resources out there, there's, you know, our website is a fountain of information. I keep saying it. I absolutely love our website because our scams are listed from A-Z and so easy to find and.
And if the scam is not there, don't hesitate to contact us and reach out to us. You know, there's a 1-800 number and you can you can talk to one of our fraud specialists.
If in doubt and, and you can't get a hold of us, you know, reach out to law enforcement. They have all, all this information. They'll point you in the right direction.
I would say that the best way to protect yourself is to take a step back every time someone is asking you for something. Whether you know money, personal information. You know, if there's a sense of urgency for anything.
Take a step back. Nothing is that urgent today that you have to act that quickly. You know, we, we, we get a lot of calls from victims of the grandparents scams. So they're these are all seniors who have received phone calls and they believe that it's their, their grandson, granddaughter or family member that is in trouble.
And, you know the, the, the fraudsters will pretend to be lawyers and the RCMP of course, or law enforcement. And, they will create that sense of urgency and ask them to send cash in the courier.
And again, my dad's 87 years old and my dad would probably want to help my son or help, you know anyone else in my family.
So he probably would fall for it. Because you know a lot of the times they catch you off guard and they create that fear.
And we've had a lot of seniors put cash in the courier, and, and send it to the fraudsters so that they could pay bail for their, you know, their, their grandkids or their family members. So, nothing is that urgent today, that you have to drain your bank account or, or take out large amounts of money out of your bank account, and send that money.
Again. Question. This is your money. You've worked hard for it and verify information. There's nothing wrong with asking questions.
You know, you're allowed to ask questions if you're sending that much money, you're allowed to ask questions.
CC: Good point.
I'm just picturing my grandfather trying to help me out if I got into trouble. And I'm pretty sure he would just call my parents yelling at them.
It would be like…He would not fall for it out of spite.
CC: You can tell that you're passionate about your job. That's awesome.
Nancy: I love my work. I really do. I love my job and I've said this so many times. You know, I…a lot of times it's 4:00 and I don't even notice the time and I'm working away.
And next thing you know, I'm like, Oh my gosh, you know, I, but I, I get really wrapped up into it. I'm very passionate about it and I'm very grateful for it.
It's very rewarding. I feel so accomplished at the end of the day, and, and sometimes stressed out because I feel like I haven't done enough and I could have done more. So that's that, you know, the two sides of working for the CAFC, but at the end of the day, it is super rewarding. I really, really enjoy my work.
CC: That's awesome.
Nancy: Yeah.
CC: Well, thanks for joining us, Nancy. I really appreciate everything that you've told us today!
Nancy: My pleasure. My pleasure.
CC: And that's a wrap on Part 1. A big thank you to Nancy for joining us on today's show and we hope that now you know more about protecting yourself and your family members from scams. If you'd like to learn more to protect yourself from scams, go to Canada.ca/taxes-fraud-prevention or check us out on Facebook, X or Instagram @CanRevAgency.
On top of helping taxpayers understand the risks of scams, the CRA also puts significant effort into fighting fraud, and continually takes steps to safeguard your sensitive information against these ever-evolving threats. Go to Canada.ca/taxes-security to learn about our security measures to protect your info, and
Stay tuned for Part 2 where we’ll explore more on this subject with CRA experts.
Thanks for listening. Until next time, stay safe. And do your taxes.
Related links
Check these out for more information about what we discussed in this episode.
- Scams and fraud – CRA
- How to protect yourself against scams and schemes. Find out how to report a scam, suspicious activity, or suspected tax cheating.
- Canadian Anti-Fraud Centre
- The Canadian Anti-Fraud Centre collects information on fraud and identity theft. They provide information on past and current scams affecting Canadians.
- Recognize a scam
- Know how to recognize a scam and the reasons why the CRA may need to contact you.
- Verify it's the CRA calling
- What to expect when the CRA calls you.
- Scams and fraud – Government of Canada
- Learn the signs so you can protect yourself from scammers.
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