Episode 13: Can inmates vote?

Kirstan: Can inmates vote? It's a simple question, but one that many Canadians may not know the answer to. For those who don't, the answer is yes. But how does voting work inside a federal prison? That's a slightly more complex question, so on today's episode we're going to unpack it. I'm your host Kirstan Gagnon, and welcome to another episode of Prisons Inside / Out.

Kirstan: In 2002, the Supreme Court of Canada ruled that banning federally incarcerated individuals from voting was unconstitutional as it violated the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. The Court recognized that voting plays a key role in social development and reintegration for offenders. Since then, the Correctional Service of Canada (CSC) is responsible for ensuring that every eligible offender knows their rights and has the opportunity to cast a ballot. But how exactly does that happen?

Kirstan: Here to tell us more about that and to answer questions like how to inmates register to vote, what riding do they vote in and how do they learn about the candidates is Stéphanie Morin, CSC’s national elections coordinator.

Kirstan: So hi Stephanie, thank you so much for being here today to speak with us about elections.

Stéphanie: Hi Kirstan and thank you for having me.

Kirstan: So tell me a bit about your role at the Correctional Service of Canada.

Stéphanie: Yes, so my primary role at CSC here is as a correctional investigator liaison and as the elections coordinator. So as the elections coordinator, I work closely with electoral bodies across all levels of government, so whether it's municipal, provincial or federal, as well as with all of our 96 liaison officers across our correctional institutions in Canada. And basically my role is to ensure that voting in institutions are conducted efficiently and really ensuring that offenders can exercise their right to vote.

Kirstan: So when you're a federal offender, you don't lose that right. You're allowed to vote. And so on the inside of our prisons, we will coordinate them being able to mark their ballots. So you've just explained that a little bit, but how does your role begin? When do you start doing the work on elections as an election coordinator?

Stéphanie: So it really depends. So when it, when it comes to municipal, provincial or federal by-elections, so offenders do with a vote by mail. So it's done all by mail. So what they have to do is, so I'm notified the moment an election is called, I get an email from the electoral body and then I delegate that to our liaison officers at the sites who facilitate the votes. What they do pretty much is they put up posters across the institution to make sure that offenders are aware of an ongoing in election and can register to vote in election if they wish. So if they're interested, they approach that liaison officer fill in an application to vote and then that’s sent over to the electoral body. They review it and if the offender is eligible to vote, they send a voting kit to the institution with a write-in ballot and some instructions for the offender. They fill out the ballot and then it is our liaison officers who make sure that that is returned to the election body by mail by the said deadline.

Kirstan: So what you described is, I think in Elections Canada speak, it's voting by special ballot. How do we make sure that an inmate can make an informed decision, know about the candidates they can vote for? Because I know on these ballots there's no names at that time, right?

Stéphanie: So because our offenders, their place of ordinary residence doesn't mean that it's necessarily in the city or electoral district within where they are. And so, 19 to 16 days before an Election Day, they will receive a list of candidates for their electoral district. And when they filled out the application form in there, they will have rendered address of ordinary residents and that determines for who they can vote. And so on election day, election officers will give the offender the list of candidates for who they can vote for and they'll have to write down that name on the ballot.

Kirstan: So interesting. So it's where the offender lived prior to being incarcerated that determines their electoral district?

Stéphanie: Correct.

Kirstan: OK. And so that must get a little bit complex inside of different penitentiaries. There's, you know, 43 of them across Canada. How does that work? Well, you must be super busy during an election.

Stéphanie: It is very busy. For me it's more on a national standpoint. So I make sure that our liaison officers across all our sites have the information and materials that they need to help facilitate this with our offenders. But really the ones that do the big heavy lifting are liaison officers on the sides. They're the ones they're working directly with returning officers, which are staff from field staff from Elections Canada and they're the one working directly with the offenders and helping them fill out those registration forms, determining their address of ordinary residence.

Kirstan: OK. And to do that do they have to come into the institutions? How does that work?

Stéphanie: Yes. So on polling day, there is electoral staff that go to our institutions and they are the one who deliver the vote to the inmates. So, our liaison officers will do a lot of work leading up to that day. But on that day it is Elections Canada staff that enter our institutions and are at the polling stations.

Kirstan: Make sure it's fair and procedurally sound I'm guessing, because those votes will count. I wanted to unpack something you said a little earlier because we talk about, you know, inmates don't have internet in prison. And so how, how would they do any research if they wanted to, on that list of candidates, to know if it aligns with how they want to exercise their right?

Stéphanie: So on the poster, whenever the election is called and it's put up in the institution, there will be a number that the offenders can call and it's a direct line to Elections Canada and it's a specific line to address our offenders. And so they are there to really help guide them, answer the questions they may have that are related to elections.

Kirstan: So walk me through just so we get a mental image of how voting would work in prison.

Stéphanie: So actually, the reality is there's not one institution that’s the same as the next. And so we've already started the work with the liaison officers and again, this is where they do a lot of the heavy lifting. So we've already started preliminary plans with them and to determine where will the polling stations be set up, how many polling stations will we need based on our offender count at that institution? And then for every polling station, there are two staff members of Elections Canada. And then we also have to facilitate everything from movement from offenders from their unit to the polling stations. So all that coordination of logistics is really done at the site. We allow the sites to determine what's best for them based on security, movement, all the escorts, people escorting offenders to the polling stations. And so, but to make sure that everybody, I guess, is as well prepared during the day of the election, we've started working on that already so that the plans are already in place, people know where they're going on election day.

Kirstan: So they would have everything from the voting screens that we see in a regular polling site replicated inside of a federal penitentiary?

Stéphanie: Correct, yes. And that would have to be, we strongly encourage our liaison officers to set that up the night before because polling stations are open from 9:00 am to 8:00 pm local time.

Kirstan: Okay. So very similar to what we would see in the community. Would you say that a lot of federal inmates vote?

Stéphanie: Yes. We have a big turnout of offenders who vote. Actually in the last general election there was 5801 offenders for whom we've received their votes, which represented 45% of our offender population at that time.

Kirstan: And yesterday we had an Ontario election. So on a provincial scale, basically if an offender’s in BC and their home riding is in Ontario, they would be eligible vote.

Stéphanie: Correct.

Kirstan: So it's still national wide for Correctional Service of Canada to plan such a thing. How did that go?

Stéphanie: It went well. So an offender, if they wanted to vote, again, this one is mailed, vote by mail. And so there's no actual polling stations for provincial elections, even though it is a general election, there's no polling stations for those, only during a general election. And so for this one, the offenders that wanted to vote, they would have sent in an application request and then they would have gone that voting kit by mail and then returned to Elections Ontario.

Kirstan: Okay. So just basically just to clarify what we said earlier, so if they're voting in the municipal or provincial election, it's mostly by special ballot by mail?

Stéphanie: Correct.

Kirstan: But if you're voting federally in a general election, we will set up those polling stations inside of the institutions.

Stéphanie: Yes.

Kirstan: Okay, that's the difference. So what would you say is the most fun part of your job working as liaison? You said you work with a huge network of other staff from across Canada and it must be very exciting during an election, there's a lot happening. What are some of the things that you love about your role?

Stéphanie: Well, what's really interesting is that I really get to connect with all of our institutions, even though I'm physically here at NHQ in Ottawa. So it's fun to be able to have those connections at the sites and work with the people. And also what's really fun is as I do work for CSC, but I get to work a lot in collaboration with Elections Canada. So that's very different. So it switches things up from time to time. So it's pretty fun.

Kirstan: That's great. Well, thank you very much for taking some time to speak with us today about this interesting topic. Is there anything else you'd like to add?

Stéphanie: No, just thank you for this opportunity to allow Canadians to know that offenders can vote and it is their right and it is important.

Kirstan: Thank you.

Stéphanie: You're welcome.

Kirstan: Now let's hear from Annette Risto, Chief of Administration Services at Millhaven Institution. She'll walk us through how voting takes place inside of a prison where movement is often restricted and security considerations play a big role.

Kirstan: So welcome to the podcast.

Annette: Thank you very much.

Kirstan: So Annette, tell me a bit about your role with elections.

Annette: So I am currently the Chief of Admin Services at Millhaven Institution. I'm actually the primary liaison officer for this site. I will get emails from national headquarters elections, which usually is then on provincial elections or federal elections. They will provide the information, so the dates of when elections will be happening, they'll provide information that we will then provide to the offenders. So posters to post up within our population because they all have the right to vote across Canada.

Kirstan: So tell me a bit about, for example, if an election is called federally, so a general election, when does your work begin? How does how does that flow?

Annette: Our work began in actually January of this year. We had a video conference scheduled in January with all of the liaison officers just to kind of get us prepared to make sure we knew what our roles and responsibilities were as there's new liaison officers coming in and it's their first time doing it. And then we have seasonal ones, so which makes it easy and able to communicate and answer questions as well. It's a lot of work. It will start to get busier when the election actually is called. And then we will work closely with elections at national headquarters. There's actually a liaison officer there that will keep us in the loop of everything that is going on.

Kirstan: So how do you inform inmates of their right to vote?

Annette: That is actually provided to us. There's a poster provided to us from Elections, from NHQ, from national headquarters, from Elections Canada. So it’s the poster that provides all the dates, the start date, the end date, what the election actually is. So we post that within the institutions, so in common areas, on ranges, it can also go on, the offender, it’s called a Teledon, so it's like the institutional TV channel. So we can actually put it on there as well. And they are advised that the election has been called, these are the time frames, and most of the time it's to submit a request to the Chief of Admin Services so that an application for special ballot can be provided to them to fill out.

Kirstan: So if candidates want to come into a federal prison and speak with inmates about their candidacy to run for an election, is that possible? How does that work?

Annette: It’s up to the candidate to send material to the institution if they would like their information sent to the population. Elections Canada does not share it on the behalf of the candidate and if they would like to come into the institution, it is actually determined by the institutional head if the visit would be feasible or not.

Kirstan: So I want to get a picture of how a voting day would work. You work in a maximum security institution and I'm assuming the flow is really important for security purposes. So give me a picture of how that would flow on election day.

Annette: On election day it's going to be a lot of work. It will definitely have to adjust our routine for the day, our institutional routine for the offenders so that we ensure that they all have the ability to vote and they're not elsewhere during the voting. It is myself confirming with Elections Canada how many polling stations we would need within our institution. Our population is a unique population because they don't really get along that well some days. So I can't just have a general area like certain institutions can have. I'm actually going to have to have polling stations likely in every one of my units at our institution. So that would be around 4 polling stations and then I'm gonna have to have a mobile polling station too so that it can go to offend cells who are unable to get out of their cells due to mobility issues.

Kirstan: So it resembles very much the way you and I would go vote in the community at a polling station, but with more logistics involved? And when we do vote, we have the right to do so in secrecy, how do you make sure you protect the secrecy of the vote?

Annette: It honestly is just like a polling station that we would go to out in the community. So it's all set up the same. So there's two volunteers that Elections Canada will send in per polling station. They would have the barrier up where they can mark their ballots behind the barriers and then close up the envelopes and provide it to, it's actually a voting bin that is all locked up.

Kirstan: And in your experience, what's the level of interest among inmates? Is there a high voter turnout at Millhaven?

Annette: I don't really know in regards to Millhaven itself because I wasn't here during the last elections, but at the other institution that I was at, I would say it was close to 65 to 70% of offenders actually did come out to vote.

Kirstan: Is there anything else you'd like to add about running elections in an institution?

Annette: It honestly, it takes a lot of teamwork. I work very closely with the correctional officers, with the institutional head and the assistant warden of operations, which is the head of security. It's just ensuring that everyone has the right and that things are provided, the information is provided clearly to the offenders as what's required during the day of the voting as well because they are required to bring their photo ID, preregister if possible. They can actually register on the day at the voting at the polling station just like you and I can. So it's just ensuring that it runs as smooth as it possibly can for a federal institution. It's a long day. It starts first thing in the morning and it goes till 9:00 at night. Then it’s putting all the polling stations together, locking them up in the provided bags that Elections Canada provides us, and then having the couriers come to the institution and pick it up that evening so they can actually be delivered to Elections Canada to be counted.

Kirstan: How about some, we just had the Ontario provincial election and that would have impacted you because you're in the Ontario region. Did that go well in terms of flow and organization?

Annette: Yes, it's an easier one because it is them submitting a request to myself. I go and give them the application, they fill out the application. I have to actually confirm and sign off on the application that the address they provided is the correct address and that they are actually able to vote in Ontario. So we had around approximately 15 inmates actually interested in voting that that did vote. All of the voting kits arrived on time, were sent off within the time frames.

Kirstan: Well, it sounds like a well-oiled machine and I appreciate all the work you do in our federal penitentiary. So Annette, thanks for your time today.

Annette: Awesome. Thank you so much for the opportunity. I do appreciate it.

Kirstan: Finally, I spoke with Rick Sauvé. He was the one who challenged the constitutionality of the provision in the Canada Elections Act which denied inmates the right to vote. He took time to speak with me about this experience.

Kirstan: So tell me a bit about yourself, Rick.

Rick: So I've been a lifer, serving a life sentence, but I've been working with Saint Leonard's, used to be Lifeline in-reach, for the past 26 years. I'm going back into all the prisons in the Ontario region. And then it became St. Leonard's Purelife. And I for the few years I was the only in-reach worker going in doing that. I also have a contract with the Queen's Prison Law Clinic in Kingston and I still do the same kind of things, do groups in the institutions, run groups that I that I've developed, do parole hearings and just try and bring some hope and encouragement to the men and women serving life sentences.

Kirstan: And so 2002 is an important date. It's the date that the Supreme Court of Canada judgment came out around giving federal prisoners the right to vote in Canada. And tell me a bit about that.

Rick: OK, so that started, that court case was actually twice we went to the Supreme Court of Canada. And so the court case started, I was in prison at the time in 1983, and so I contacted legal aid and I told them that I want to challenge to have the right to vote. And so it had to do, was I had to be denied the right. And so I wrote the Solicitor General, I wrote the Warden, I wrote the Commissioner of the Penitentiary and said what is going to be in place for myself and other prisoners to vote. And we heard back from all of them, and Elections Canada, and said prisoners aren't allowed to vote. And so that was the denial. And so 1984/85 we ended up going to had a trial in Ottawa and we had a number of different professors and the Crown was challenging saying that I shouldn't be entitled to vote. Anyway, that case went to the Supreme Court of Canada, and the Supreme Court of Canada upheld our arguments and said, yes, prisoners should be entitled to vote. And so then the government at the time said, well, we can't stop all prisoners from voting and said, okay, well, anybody serving five years or more won't be able to vote. And so, had to challenge it again to go back to the Supreme Court the second time. So, went to the Supreme Court second time and then in 2002 is Supreme Court, I was on parole at the time, so it was actually able to go to the Supreme Court. And hear are all the legal arguments and won. We won.

Kirstan: And how did you feel when you got that decision?

Rick: I was really, really ecstatic. Like I say, I was in Ottawa at the Supreme Court and I remember standing on the steps of the Supreme Court and reflected back and on all the years and, you know, that we fought this, you know, reading some of the headlines over the years that, you know, convicts shouldn't be able to vote.

Kirstan: And what was the reaction of others that were incarcerated hearing this news?

Rick: It was, everybody that I spoke to were really, really happy about it.

Kirstan: And did you ever get involved? You mentioned the first time it happened, I'm assuming it was a federal election?

Rick: We voted in the provincial election and then in the federal election. But they, we actually had polling booth set up in the institution, and yeah, everybody lined up and went down to vote and it was really, it was really good.

Kirstan: Great. Well, you must be proud of all the accomplishments on this front.

Rick: I am, because not only did that our case, cases, twice that like I said, we went to the Supreme Court of Canada have an impact on Canadian elections and voting, but I've been contacted the from other countries. So yeah, that case went beyond our borders. So I'm, yeah, I'm very proud of that. I think it's, you know, hugely important for everyone to vote.

Kirstan: So how many years was it from the time that you started advocating for this to the time of those decisions?

Rick: I think in total it was 19 years.

Kirstan: Oh wow.

Rick: Yeah.

Kirstan: Well, thank you so much for the time that you've dedicated to this interview. I really appreciate it.

Rick: Well, you're welcome. Thanks for having me.

Kirstan: That's all for this episode of Prisons Inside / Out. A big thank you goes out to our guests for sharing their time with us. This has been a production of the Correctional Service of Canada and I've been your host, Kirstan Gagnon. Thanks for listening.